So, I got a lot done today. I wasn't among those that started at midnight last night so I got up with my wife at 6 this morning. One song is more or less done, and I'll be working on some lyrics tonight. I'm not too happy with the vocals I recorded today, so I'm going to go back and redo them tomorrow. I can sing, but my enunciation is a little sloppy.
Also, I would love to get a little discussion about lyric writing going. How do you all go about writing your lyrics? Do you write lyrics first, then write the music or music then lyrics? Do you get a basic idea, write the music, then add lyrics.
I've been writing the music first then writing lyrics. It's a little more difficult for me because I HATE cheesy lyrics, and I'm a big fan of abstract lyrics, but I'm trying to avoid cliche's.
I tend to write the music first, and while doing so, come up with a basic theme and feel that defines how I sing and write the melodies/lyrics. Typically, I go for a more abstract approach, focusing on things that subconsciously come out. Mostly thoughts from the day, week, or several months.
ReplyDeleteI tend to also improvise words over the song until some of the rhythms take shape, and I'm able to use words that rhyme with those vocal rhythms. It all typically gels together by the time I'm finished, but there is typically some refinement as I actually try to perform the vocal parts.
I am really REALLY picky about lyrics, and I couldn't name 5 artists whose lyrics I really like. Not that I think mine are better, but eh...I dunno.
ReplyDeleteI like lyrics to be "classic," yet clever...but also unpretentious. I'm moving away from abstract lyrics because they almost never have any real impact. I think songs need to be "about" something specific, at least in the conceptual stage. In a song with abstract, cut-and-paste phrases, you never get that "ooh" effect when you hear a great lyric, because there's no context. Just my opinion.
As for how I write them...I almost always do music first, but it doesn't really matter...you just have to think really hard!
I totally agree with you Dan. Lyrics should definitely be clever yet unpretentious. By Abstract, I don't mean the topic. I guess I should say more metaphorical...
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with your outlook, Dan! And Paul, I also HATE cheesy lyrics...I certainly don't think it's easy to write great (or even just "better") lyrics...but it's always worth it.
ReplyDeleteI can't say too much on this topic since Eric is really the main source of music AND lyric writing for our projects. But Eric tends to write what I consider cheesy and cliche lyrics without meaning to, so I go in after him and clean it up.
That said, I think Eric and I work really well together. Neither of us get offended when the other doesn't like an idea or word or phrasing. In other words: working with a partner on lyric writing doesn't always work out; it definitely has to be the right person.
We're both big fans of the writing principle "show, don't tell." Meaning: don't talk ABOUT something...just say it, describe it.
Good luck! Can't wait to hear the final product.
One thing I forgot to mention is that it's hard to define what cheesy lyrics are. I'm sure you know them when you hear them...but when going through Record Time, if the lyrics mean something to you, then it's hard to really qualify them as being really cheesy.
ReplyDeleteI also did not mention that the way in which you sing the lyrics and the vocal performance in general can really define how cheesy everything sounds.
I mean, if you take the first stanza of "Lilac Wine" by Jeff Buckley, it could be construed as sounding very cheesy. But it's Jeff Buckley, and his performance is so impressive that it does not matter:
I lost myself on a cool damp night
I gave myself in that misty light
Was hypnotized by a strange delight
Under a lilac tree
I think there are a million different interpretations of how lyrics should sound. I think that "clever yet unpretentious" has a bit of a pretentious tone to it, but it's one of those million interpretations.
Have some cheese with your Lilac Wine, and don't sweat it!
Those lyrics aren't cheesy, nor are they abstract...I think they qualify as solid lyrics.
ReplyDeleteI don't care as much about cheesy lyrics as about boring lyrics, and boring usually equals overused phrases and rhymes. And for the record, I am ALL ABOUT perfect rhyme...ending on a word that almost rhymes is such a disappointment to my brain.
One tip I got from Stephen Sondheim's book, which I found really interesting, is that rhymes are more satisfying when they're spelled differently. For example "tougher" and "suffer." Or, because I hold Disney lyrics in high regard -- from the Little Mermaid -- "Proper women, sick of swimmin'" or rhyming "waters" with "daughters." That's good stuff right there.
And Joe, "clever yet unpretentious" is not pretentious. You know exactly what I mean, jackass.
lmfao...
ReplyDelete